06th September 2024
bbc.co.uk/accessall
Access All – episode 123
Presented
by Emma Tracey
EMMA- Hello
and welcome to our third special episode from Paris, where we have been taking
in all aspects of the Paralympics, even some of the sport, but we’ve also been
taking in the drama and the food and the people. It’s really noisy, I can hear
international voices. But I do want to tell you about some of the food, because
you can’t go to without talking about the food. We managed to get into
the athletes lounge this morning at Paralympics GB House. That’s where the
athletes hang out. We sat on chairs that gold medal winners had sat on. And in
there they had macarons, and you can’t go to Paris without a few macarons. On
them one of them had the Eiffel Tower and Paris written on it, and the other
one had Paralympics GB sign, and they were absolutely delicious, completely
scrumptious. So, I’m going to grab a few more macarons and head on my adventure
around Paris. On with the show.
MUSIC- Theme
music.
EMMA- We
have an absolute cracker of a show coming up for you. We’re going to be
speaking to the boss of Paralympics GB, David Clarke. We’re going to be talking
to an amazing woman called Deza about life for disabled people in . But
first we got access to one of the most locked down places in Paris. And it
isn’t the Louvre and it isn’t the Eiffel Tower; it is the athletes’ village.
And we were let into the athletes’ village to visit Ottobock, which is an
enormous workshop where they fix all the athletes’ prosthetics, bikes,
wheelchairs. We literally saw a rugby wheelchair being welded back together
after whacking into so many other wheelchairs. And here we meet Donna Fisher,
and she is a O which is, it’s quite hard to say but I’m going to try it,
she’s a certified prosthetist orthotist. And she makes prosthetics and
orthotics, and she’s really into it and she’s absolutely brilliant.
MUSIC-
DONNA- The
main function for the workshop is we will provide a repair service to all of
the athletes and the Paralympic family. I think almost 4,400 athletes competing
in the Paralympic Games, some of them will use different types of equipment:
some are using wheelchairs; some are using prothesis for sports; others are
using prosthesis for walking around or wheelchairs for moving around. So, we
will do repairs on any of the equipment that athletes require for their sports.
EMMA- And
how big is the operation? How big is Ottobock here?
DONNA- So,
this is my fourth Paralympic Games. I started in London, and this is the
biggest team that we have brought. We have a team of over 160 orthopaedic technicians
here, and a team around that of s, media, all the girls who
are taking in the orders. So, it’s a huge team we have here in .
EMMA- Wow,
that’s a lot. And they come from all over the world, don’t they?
DONNA- All
over the world. We have technicians from I think 40 countries, and we are
speaking more than 30 different languages.
[Background
talking] we also have a sewing area here, Emma. I’m just bringing you around.
One of my colleagues here is doing some sewing. Louane is making some sewing of
a strap to put a soft pad onto an attachment to hold the athlete’s leg onto the
wheelchair when they’re playing.
EMMA- Oh.
DONNA- Often
with the sports they are moving very quickly, and the tennis in the wheelchair,
rugby and in the basketball, and they don’t want to fall out of the chair, and
they need to be really securely fastened. So, there’s a lot of pressure on the
straps, and they are breaking, and so we do a lot of repairing of the straps.
EMMA- Oh
my goodness. Do they break during matches and stuff as well?
DONNA- They
can do, yeah.
EMMA- And
if you were at the wheelchair rugby would you be expected to fix a strap or
would that just be a you’ll have to wait?
DONNA- If
we can we’ll fix it there. If not we send it back here to the workshop and we
will fix it for them as soon as we can.
EMMA- Okay.
Because they do really chuck themselves about in the rugby, don’t they?
DONNA- Yeah.
Actually what I will show you just while we’re here is, because I think I hear
the welder. This is a noisy room so sorry for the noise. In behind the screen
here there is a whole welding area where we’re welding the frames of the
wheelchairs when they break.
EMMA- Wow.
How do they break? How does a frame break during a match?
DONNA- The
force that the athletes are hitting each other in the rugby. And the tennis
also is really hard on the wheelchairs. Gunther?
GUNTHER- Yeah.
DONNA- Would
you mind for one moment explaining to my colleagues here what you are doing
with the chair?
GUNTHER- We
weld to repair the frame of the chair. It was broken, and we fix it again.
DONNA- And
this is a rugby chair?
GUNTHER- This
is a rugby chair, yes.
DONNA- Rugby
chair, okay.
EMMA- And
what did it come in like? What happened to it?
GUNTHER- It’s
an old chair.
DONNA- So,
it’s an old chair and the frame has cracked.
GUNTHER- Yeah.
DONNA- So,
with the rugby the forces when they are hitting each other it’s crazy. So,
Gunther, my colleague, is one of our wheelchair welder experts, so he is very
used to doing this type of work. But sometimes with the older chairs the force
is just over and over and over and over again, and eventually it just cracks.
So, Thorsten and Gunther have now fixed
it.
EMMA- Brilliant.
DONNA- And
it’s ready for a competition.
EMMA- Ready
for a competition, lovely. I feel like I’m in a mixture of Inside the Factory
and Santa’s workshop.
DONNA- Yeah
exactly [laughs], that’s not a bad way to think of it, Emma. Thank you.
EMMA- Thank
you.
DONNA- So,
I bring you to the store and it’s not so exciting but it will give you an idea
of what types of things that we’re doing. So, we have a stock room with over
20,000 parts.
EMMA- Wow.
DONNA- We
brought the parts from our head office in Duderstadt in in three big
trucks, all e-trucks. This is the store room. The store is just full of
shelves. We have prosthetics, orthotics and wheelchairs, so we have many tyres,
many tubes for tyres, bearings, screws.
EMMA- Is
it all in boxes?
DONNA- We’ve
got all different types of feet. Come on over and I’ll let you just have a
little feel. So, this is the prosthetic area.
EMMA- She
indulges me. This is like your Aladdin’s Cave then?
DONNA- Absolutely.
EMMA- Very
good.
DONNA- So,
we’ve got, as I say, 20,000 different parts in here.
EMMA- Amazing.
DONNA- Now
we’re ging to go round the corner and we’ll head back to the workshop. What we
also have is we have two 3D printers. We’ve also got a really interesting 3D
printing device going on at the moment which is for an Australian athlete. And
they’re missing both of their arms, so bilateral, below elbow, so they’re
missing both arms from below the elbow. And they are really struggling to move
their suitcase. So, it’s a swimmer and to go to the swimming he needs to bring
his clothes and his equipment. And he has like a normal suitcase with wheels,
but he can’t wheel it because he doesn’t have any hands.
EMMA- No
grip.
DONNA- Exactly.
So, we’re actually making a two-part attachment that will fit onto the suitcase
and then he can fit his arm and then he can wheel the wheelchair.
EMMA- That
sounds like something that could go to market.
DONNA- Absolutely.
And these are one-off things. This athlete has come into us with a problem, we
have to decide what’s the solution and then how do we make it. So, he will come
back at 7pm this evening and we will fit it to the suitcase.
EMMA- And
what is the range of equipment that you guys are repairing? You talked about
wheelchairs and prosthetic limbs; are there different things other than that, but
also different types of prosthetics and different types of wheelchairs
depending on where you come from and what you can afford et cetera?
DONNA- Yeah.
I guess what we see is from a competition point of view there are obviously
regulations around what the athletes can use. So, for the competitions for the
wheelchair basketball, wheelchair rugby they would have specialist chairs, the
road racing bikes, and they would all be of the same type because they need to
be for a competition. But we also see a lot of different types of prosthesis,
orthosis and wheelchairs that are for daily use coming from all over the world.
So, obviously from the developing world we will see some equipment that is
maybe not so modern. And then from the developed countries we are seeing more
modern, sometimes the high-spec electronic components. So, it’s a real mixture
of everything that we do.
EMMA- Does
something come in sometimes and you go, oh-ho, that is beautiful or fancy or
ooh, I’ve not seen this before, can’t wait to work on this?
DONNA- Absolutely;
and this is why I want to be here because we’re always learning. I’m doing the
job for over 30 years but I still come here and I still see something, I get
ideas that I can bring home with me, and it’s really good for us as well.
MUSIC-
EMMA- I
have been invited down a side street in the centre of Paris. I’m here to meet Deza
Nguembock, she’s an inclusion specialist. She’s from Cameroon but been living
in Paris for 20 years. And I asked her all about the French perspective on the
Paralympics being in the city:
DEZA- The
Paralympics is taking place almost in many different places in Paris. I’ve
heard yesterday two of my friends who are disabled athletes that they had had a
lot of medals with the Paralympics and they were very, very happy. They say
that because of the Paralympics people are much more aware of what disabled
people can do without barriers. So, I think like them that it can be a good
idea because people are talking and the media are talking much more about
disabled people. And I really hope that after the Paralympics it’s going to go
on and not just stop.
EMMA- Have
you been to see everything?
DEZA- I’ve
been to the opening ceremony, but tonight I’m going to see the para athletics.
EMMA- What
was being at the opening ceremony like?
DEZA- It
was amazing, I really, really enjoyed it. I think it was the first big event on
disabled people that was really successful in my point of view.
EMMA- And
what made it so successful?
DEZA- We
were able to see disabled people and listen to their personal stories,
experiences. And it was not only about sport, it was also about fashion,
culture, everything was in the mix and I really, really liked it.
EMMA- Yes,
because lots of people’s stories were played in, weren’t they? What did you
think of the performance?
DEZA- The
performance during this ceremony was really, really well organised and it was
successful. I really liked the performances about dance, it was very powerfully
displayed. The choreography it was so, so powerful.
EMMA- What
was the choreographer and the dancers trying to say with that performance?
DEZA- The
people and the body are diverse, like what we were able to see in that
performance, and everything was beautiful. Even if you see people with no legs,
no arms, everything was well displayed and we can see the beauty inside those
people. So, the message was depending on how people are, depending on their
situation you can see harmony, you can see beauty. And diversity should become
a norm, not something that can make people exclude those who are different.
EMMA- And
are disabled people represented well in ? So, are there disabled people
on TV, in adverts, in music, in culture?
DEZA- I
made a study in March this year trying to measure how disabled people are
represented in many different spheres in society. It was about society itself,
employment, media, politics, and what we can see from this study was disabled
people were very badly represented. In media for almost 20 years we had less
than 2% of people with disabilities. That is a very, very, very bad figure we
can say. Now we should work to bring those people in many different spheres of
society. In employment we can see some improvement in the few years, starting
ten years ago, the government started encouraging corporations to hire disabled
people. There is a percentage of 6%, if you have 20 people you have to hire
disabled people. In the beginning it was very, very difficult, but now a lot of
corporations are saying that they are disabled friendly and they are trying to
bring those people in work. But what I can see from that is it’s not just
hiring people; it’s also giving them the opportunity to express their talents,
their skills, and earning money like the other employees.
EMMA- So,
there are quotas for disabled employees. What happens if an organisation with
more than 20 people don’t employ 6%?
DEZA- They
have to pay taxes, and many, many of them are paying taxes.
EMMA- What
about transport and getting around? We’ve talked a lot about access on the BBC
around the Paralympics and around spectators struggling a little bit. What do
disabled Parisians and disabled French people find?
DEZA- I
think transportation is the biggest challenge that people are facing,
especially in Paris. The Metro in Paris there are less than 3% of the Parisian
Metro that is accessible to people with a wheelchair. Almost every week I’m
facing a big challenge whether the lift doesn’t work, whether there is nobody
to display the ramp to access the train or the Metro. It is always bad stories
about that, and many different people with different disabilities are facing
the same.
EMMA- I
am noticing being in how helpful everyone has been, in Paris the taxi
drivers, the hotel people. Do you think by people all over the world talking
about Paris accessibility will that help them to move things forward and change
it?
DEZA- I
think so. I really think that what we need is to shed the light outside of
so that we know everywhere in the world what’s going on here. And since
French people don’t like to be pinpointed for doing things wrong I think
they’ll do something.
EMMA- We’re
coming towards the closing ceremony now, Deza, do you think it’s been positive?
Are we ending this Paris Paralympics on a positive note?
DEZA- Yes,
things are changing, but they are changing slowly. I would like to go quicker.
But I’m sure that we are going to arrive to something positive in the years to
come.
EMMA- Deza
Nguembock, thank you so much.
MUSIC-
EMMA- My
next conversation is with the big boss himself. It’s the CEO of Paralympics GB,
Dave Clarke. Now, he had a bit of a warmup act before we came in: he was taking
Gareth Southgate around Paralympics GB House. And then we, Access All, the big
guns arrived in the athletes’ lounge and we spoke to Dave Clarke:
Hi
Dave.
DAVID- Hello!
EMMA- You
sound very chipper. What have you been doing this morning?
DAVID- Well,
I think it’s important to be chipper when you’re seven days into the
Paralympics and the team are doing so well.
EMMA- Well,
second on the medal table, that’s extraordinary, isn’t it?
DAVID- Yeah.
Look, we’re very, very happy. I think everyone sort of looks back to London in
the UK and we look how we did there, the crowds and everything that was going
on in London. And what I always say to people is that, you know, the
performances in London, as amazing as they were, if you won a gold medal there
the time probably wouldn’t get you on the podium in Paris. So, the fact that
the standards have gone up is incredible, but the fact that we’re maintaining
our performance and our athletes are doing such an incredible job is superb.
EMMA- I
was speaking to Callie-Ann Warrington yesterday who’d won silver in her
swimming final, and she was saying that she worked full time until fairly
recently and has gone down to part time, but is still working as a
radiographer. Which I’d kind of forgotten that some of the athletes in the
Olympics and the Paralympics work outside of being an athlete. Is that
something that needs to change?
DAVID- Well,
I think it’s a matter of personal choice. All of our athletes who are on World
Class Programmes receive World Class funding through the National Lottery, and
distributed via the government through UK Sport. But of course if people
believe that they are able to combine that with work – you mentioned being a
radiographer, I would say that’s an incredibly important role, something that
someone’s studied for very hard and is a really important role in society –
then one would hope that they would be able to continue to do that as well. So,
I think it is a matter of personal choice. I think most of our athletes these
days who are on the World Class Programme would be full time. Of course there
were a number of situations within the Olympics where athletes were going back
to start doctors positions and various roles in society. So, I do think it’s up
to individuals to choice. But the World Class Programme does provide really
strong funding for those who want to be full-time athletes.
EMMA- Yeah,
that’s really interesting. How has interest been in this Paralympics? What have
the ticket sales been like? What important people have you had? What’s the
interest like from the UK and from Paris?
DAVID- It’s
been incredible, it’s been incredible. I mean, I was in Atlanta 1996 where we
probably got an hour’s magazine programme every night on the BBC. The whole
vibe around the Paralympics has changed. Out of 2.5 million tickets available I
understand that there’s only 100,000 left.
EMMA- That’s
a lot of tickets.
DAVID- I’m
pretty certain they will have gone now, because what’s happened they think is
very similar to London, is that Parisians have realised as they went away
during the Olympics because they thought it was going to be chaos in Paris,
they’ve kind of gone, oh wow, we missed out on something there, we missed out
on these incredible historic venues, we missed out on the spirit. So, they’re
coming along. And it’s great, every single stadium I’ve been in for whatever
games I’ve been in it’s been absolutely packed out, so that’s fantastic. Our
Prime Minister ed us at the opening ceremony; the first Prime Minister to
come to an away Paralympics, which was absolutely incredible. We had the Sports
Minister here with us, Steph Peacock for about three days, who just couldn’t
get enough of what’s going on out here. And then really importantly Lisa Nandy,
the Secretary of State for DCMS was here and able to witness our equal play
film and really give some strong commitments around the availability of sport
for disabled kids in school. And then finally towards the back of this week we
have our royal patron, the Duke of Edinburgh, with his wife the Duchess, and
the Disability Minister, Stephen Timms will be out here as well.
EMMA- That’s
a lot of important people to wine and dine, Dave Clarke, isn’t it?
DAVID- Not
a lot of wining going on.
EMMA- [Laughs]
DAVID- The
only whining you’ll find is me making the odd point that we want changing. But
it’s really important to have that platform and that people are interested and
they’re here genuinely to find out what we’re doing, find out what we think,
and that’s super important. And I suppose the other cohort I should mention,
there’s a massive amount of here on the ground from the UK: 28% of all
tickets sold internationally are to British fans.
EMMA- Tell
me about the legacy. We always talk about the legacy of the Paralympics, but
you at Paralympics GB have been campaigning for children to get more PE at
school. Are you hoping that this Games will encourage that and increase that?
DAVID- Yeah,
I think what’s really important is that we fly the flag for every disabled
person. When I was competing it was always a little bit of a difficult one with
the disabled community because people weirdly decided that well, if those guys
can do what they do then why can’t you, sort of thing. And no one would ever
think of saying to Usain Bolt’s neighbour, why can’t you run as fast as Usain
Bolt. So, there was always that ridiculous pressure. But what we want to do is
turn that completely on its head and say look, we at Paralympics GB we’re doing
what we do at the elite level of sport, but we want to fly the flag for every
disabled person. And our particular angle on this is around the inclusion and
understanding of disability but within a sporting context, as well as that
wider piece around society. So, it’s really important to us that we launched
our Social Impact Strategy which has at the heart of it the Equal Play
campaign, which is about ensuring that the three out of four disabled kids who
don’t currently do regular sport in school get the opportunity and the choice
to do so.
EMMA- And
why is it so important for a disabled kid to do PE or do sport? I’ve talked to
a couple of disabled people over the last couple of days who said they didn’t
have PE. I did because I was at a special school. But what does it mean going
forward for disabled people if they have the opportunity to try different
things when they’re young?
DAVID- I’ll
slightly flip the question: why is it important for kids to do PE? That should
be the end of it, right. If it’s important for kids to do PE, which I believe
it is for all sorts of reasons, for social reasons, mobility, technical skills,
psychology, there’s a whole raft of reasons why doing PE, moving, being active
is good for you. And it’s really important that that’s done inclusively so that
everybody can get involved. But if we’ve decided it’s good enough for kids then
that means all kids. And that was something that Lisa Nandy was very strong on.
When she said every child, she means every child. So, we don’t need to
put a new lens on it because it’s disabled. If it’s good for kids it’s good for
disabled kids.
EMMA- But
why are these disabled kids not getting PE? Is it health and safety? And how do
you get past that?
DAVID- Well,
I think there’s a whole raft of reasons. And first of all, this is not about
bashing teachers and schools. This is about providing the right resources,
providing the right training. And also only about half a percent, from our
studies, of teachers would identify as having a disability. So, there’s a real
lack of lived experience with disability within our schools. We need to provide
them with the resources and the training so that they do feel confident in
creating an inclusive lesson. There are Paralympic champions here who are only
here by virtue of a random conversation that took place in their teens. That
cannot be. We’re not saying that everyone needs to be a Paralympian, we’re not
saying that everyone needs to be an elite sport; but every disabled person
should have the choice whether to be sporty and active or not.
EMMA- We’re
fast approaching the closing ceremony of the Paralympic Games now. What happens
after that for the athletes and for the Paralympics GB behind the scenes team?
DAVID- Look,
it’s been a phenomenal couple of weeks. Paris and have really shone, and
I think it’s been an incredible festival of sport. For athletes we’ll have that
moment of reflection during the closing ceremony, and then it will be a great
party. And then we’ll all head back and then we will have our homecoming, which
is going to be up in Birmingham, which we’re really excited about. And that
will be an opportunity for friends and family, team to get together and
celebrate what’s just happened. But we also have our Change Maker Programme,
which means that lots of our Paralympic athletes will go into schools, will go
into sports centres, will do exactly as their Olympic counterparts did and go
back to the places that made them and the places that developed them and really
show off their medals, show off their successes. But also try and be that
shining light for future people to get the opportunity to play sport.
EMMA- David
Clarke, CEO of Paralympics GB, thank you so much.
DAVID- Thank
you.
MUSIC-
EMMA- It
has been the most amazing time, the most amazing three days in Paris. But it
does have to come to an end, and it’s about to do that here in Gard du Nord,
one of the big train stations in Paris. I’m standing on a platform overlooking
all the trains, about to get my Eurostar back to London. But it has just been
really, really wonderful. I’ve had a great time at Paralympics GB House
speaking to the fabulous medallists; going to the events, like swimming and
athletics. The atmosphere was just electric. The sound in the stadiums was just
ears-ringing loud with the roaring, and so many British fans as well.
Thanks
a million to Beth Rose and to Karen Golightly for their help to put all this
together in Paris. If you want to hear any of our other episodes you can find
them on BBC Sounds on the Access All feed; just search for that in there. If
you want to get in touch with us please do, we’re accessall@bbc.co.uk on email, and on
socials, Instagram and X, formerly known as Twitter, we are @BBCAccessAll. See
you next time. Bye bye.
